Curse

WinterSnowblind · Aug 23, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

I can't really argue about this, unless I know what your actual build is. I do hate it when people try and force their own play methods on other people, but like others have already said, if you were attempting to do a difficult mission, and you were using a bad build, then they did have the right to tell you to change things up. After all, Guild Wars is all about working in a team.

I don't think people need to be so rude, or demanding about it, but for example, if I'm trying to do something like the Gate of Madness, I often kick people if they're using bad builds. There's no point in taking people like that just to be polite, because we'll just fail the mission, wasting a good deal of time.

Cebe · Aug 23, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaxmor

I agree with OP - I hate it when ppl criticise me (W/MO) for taking mending + healing breeze.
They dont understand thats what a paladin is supposed to do - heal and do massive dmg with powerful skillz like 100 blades.

whenever ppl criticise my choice of Mending + healing breeze I just laugh at them for not having a 14-20 12%hex crystalline sword like mine.

This post wins the highly sought after Rofflecopter Prize.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________

In response to the Original Post. Some skills are - more helpful than others - in specific missions. For instance, in Abaddon's Gate, Cautery Signet and Martyr work well, whereas Extinguish will also *suffice*, but is not as good.

I feel there is a balance when it comes to sorting out a team's build. It is ok to request certain skills, and point out why they are important / beneficial, but it should never be demanded. Neither should anyone have the right to completely change anyone else's build...as in re-write the build from scratch, such as insisting an Ele plays Earth Magic when they've only ever known Fire Magic.

For example, In my mind, it would be ok to ask a Mesmer if they could take Power Block into Gate of Pain, because it can shut down a Dryder, but it would be out of order to demand that the Mesmer switched from Illusion to Domination is order to take said skill.

Sometimes I will try to help players who are clearly new to playing a profession, such as an Ele, who clearly hasn't heard of Glyphs or Attunements because after 1+ year of GW experience you know that they will spam "My energy is 5 of 102!" after a few minutes. Some people accept what I suggest, and some people ignore me. If they ignore me I don't push it, although if the party looks doomed I will on occaision opt to leave before the mission begins.

Unfortunately some people in this game think they know everything. Those are often the same people who have Mending on their bar.

MrFuzzles · Aug 23, 2007, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

I've played the final mission in Prophecies without Winter as well, which everyone considers a must, and did it just as easily as with Winter.

It's not a must, but it allows a lot of classes to deal a lot more damage at the cost of just *one* skill slot for just one team member. If the ranger refuses to bring winter, I will go x/R and bring it myself, even if I have to sacrifice dozens of attribute points into wilderness when the ranger already has it at 14 for his ignite arrows.
If he doesn't have a good reason for bringing it (I won't ask people to buy skills, and their build might be good enough to warrant all 8 skills), I will kindly ask him to leave. If he flies off the wall and starts lecturing me that winter is a noob skill because you can learn it early in the game, I will boot him and consider it good riddance of someone who joins a team but is completely unwilling to work in one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

I've never asked anyone to ping their build, if someone is crap and we get wiped, well, so be it, seems to me thats the only way to learn how to play the game.

But what if you're a healmonk and end up with another monk? Wouldn't it be beneficial to find out what skills he's using? If he's prot? If he has any skills which overlap with yours? What if you're two rangers and bring the same spirits? What if you're a protmonk and the ranger is bringing nature's renewal? What if you could *really* use that one extra slot and can't decide if you should swap out that hex removal skill. Maybe your paragon is bringing hexbreaker aria?

If you get wiped, it doesn't have to mean that someone is crap, it could mean that your team build is awkward. Maybe you have 5 healers, 2 utility and one DD. Maybe you have 4 tanks, 2 healers and no DD's, maybe the two monks are both smiters, the possibilites are infinite.

Everyone pinging their build and adapting them based on what the others are using is just so incredibly efficient and easy to do (I'm thinking in basic terms here - simply removing double ranger spirits and designating a puller/tank, and figuring out if you have a basic amount of damage and heals), that I don't understand why people shun it *so* much.

Exoudeous · Aug 23, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Fact is people dont like to lose, and if your build is really horrible then you need to fix it or leave the group.

I dont require people have cookie cutter crap, but just sue soemthing that actually works.

however, in end game areas like DoA, Id rather the person use a proven build simply because those areas take to long, and nothing is worse then spending over an hour to only lose.

Kool Pajamas · Aug 23, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhornrob

So earlier today I had an encounter in AB that went something like this:

me: could you ping your build real quick?
ele: ping
me: is mark of rodgort necessary? you already have immolate/searing flames
ele: yes, it helps set others on fire also
me: ... well, that may be true, but in that case you should pack fireball or firestorm.
ele: what? firestorm is so noob. you're a noob. i'm outta here. *leaves group*

Was that you, Bokken?

Fireball and firestorm wont help set them on fire. Unless you mean instead of SF, but that doesn't make sense either.

But i prefer SH over SF in AB anyway, but thats just me.

Performance Pudding · Aug 23, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Urgoz lately, explaining to us how we're idiots for not taking a tank.

that was me for so long :P and it does work on occasion just give us noobs a chance...

post seemed kinda like b**** fest but ya.

Yichi · Aug 23, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

and just what praytell do you use in your builds that makes them as efficient and useful as known, proven builds that most people would like you to run....

im actually curious. So say I was to ask you to run a searing flames ele and you wanted to run something different, what are the other 3 or so skills are you goign to run in place to the standard searing flames bar that will make that build NOT suck complete ass and still work as effectively?

Moloch Vein · Aug 23, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

What this sounds like is a real bad player who hates when other people call him out on his bs. I'm not saying this is the case, I'm saying that's the impression.

A good player is never afraid of pinging his build or to defend it if necessary.

tmakinen · Aug 23, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

say I was to ask you to run a searing flames ele and you wanted to run something different, what are the other 3 or so skills are you goign to run in place to the standard searing flames bar that will make that build NOt suck complete ass?

Well, most of the time the core of my nuking build is Glyph of Sacrifice - Meteor Shower - Liquid Flame - Assassin's Promise.

In Domain of Secrets it's hard to beat the combo Mind Blast + Immolate (take +30 energy wand and focus set) - because of the energy denial environment SF is just not feasible.

In AB I have a very different fire build that I won't discuss here

stueyman2099 · Aug 23, 2007, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Well, most of the time the core of my nuking build is Glyph of Sacrifice - Meteor Shower - Liquid Flame - Assassin's Promise.

In Domain of Secrets it's hard to beat the combo Mind Blast + Immolate (take +30 energy wand and focus set) - because of the energy denial environment SF is just not feasible.

In AB I have a very different fire build that I won't discuss here

There are niche builds for sure, but for most of the game, sf is king.

Yichi · Aug 23, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Well, most of the time the core of my nuking build is Glyph of Sacrifice - Meteor Shower - Liquid Flame - Assassin's Promise.

... why

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

In Domain of Secrets it's hard to beat the combo Mind Blast + Immolate (take +30 energy wand and focus set) - because of the energy denial environment SF is just not feasible.

anyone not stupid that understands how mind blast works doesnt need a +30 set....

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

In AB I have a very different fire build that I won't discuss here

probably seen it already and 90% of the builds in AB are crap, so this worries me as per the builds and reasons posted above...

Gneppe · Aug 23, 2007, 08:36 AM // 08:36

I hit people right in the face with facts if they have a bad build.
I don't care.
I want to complete that mission and if the other monk who joined the team has Mending, Healing Breeze or other really really bad monk skills, i ask if they could change them. If they wont, or if i sence that they have absolute no idea about what job they have as a monk i leave/kick them (if i am the leader).
(monk i just an example proffession)

I know this is harsh, but i actually dont care. I do not feel like doing the same mission over and over because of 1 bad skillbar/player.
So therefore take it as a help instead of immediately thinking
"omg they hate me and my bar they can go f themselves"
We are actually advising you on good skillcombos.

// Sorry for my bad english.

stueyman2099 · Aug 23, 2007, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gneppe

I hit people right in the face with facts if they have a bad build.
I don't care.
I want to complete that mission and if the other monk who joined the team has Mending, Healing Breeze or other really really bad monk skills, i ask if they could change them. If they wont, or if i sence that they have absolute no idea about what they're job is as a monk i leave/kick them (if i am the leader).
(monk i just an example proffession)

I know this is harsh, but i actually dont care. I do not feel like doing the same mission over and over because of 1 bad skillbar/player.
So therefore take it as a help instead of immediately thinking
"omg they hate me and my bar they can go f themselves"
We are actually advising you on good skillcombos.

// Sorry for my bad english.

Agree for the most part. I play this game for myself, not for other people, save for my close friends on the game who I've known for more than a year.

As for the second part, I always try to make my arguements towards skills rational and logical. When I tell monks healing breeze is bad, I don't say it's bad, I say it does the same thing as heal other over time and is worse than heal other for that reason. Mending is bad becuase it's only 6hp/second, and that ammonts to very very little. [insert fire elite here] is bad becuase searing flames owns it for dd in 90% of situations.

zwei2stein · Aug 23, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Winter is fine example.

Is it necesary? No way.
Does it help: A lot!
Is it worth one skill slot: Hell yeah.
Can any other skill that ranger can bring more important than that? No way.

All that boils to fact that requesting that skill is perfectly fine, while not taking it sounds ... suboptimal at least.

There is no valid excuse for not taking this skill in Hells, and if you get ranger refusing to bring it, you can kick him safely because you wont miss that person at all.

Effendi Westland · Aug 23, 2007, 08:49 AM // 08:49

^Haha, yes winter is an great example, especially on Hell's Precipe. I remember the good old days, pugging that mission in the early evening. Posting GLF Ranger with winter, a ranger joins, "Do you have winter?", "Why? it sucks", "We have two fire eles and it helps them alot", "Hmmm ok". We enter, I ask him to place winter during first fights, he places Favorable winds while our eles go "Why did you ask me to go fire, fire damage sucks here."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vamis Threen

Next time, just bring cautery signet like the guy wanted you to.

Hehe, yes I thought that too, though the OP doesn't state which mission it is I'm assuming it's either Abaddon's gate or the domain of anguish elite mission. In both cases build discussion is the sensible thing to do. And as long as the team leader gives a reasonable explenation why a skill is better then another I would allways change it.

Sophitia Leafblade · Aug 23, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

In response to the Original Post. Some skills are - more helpful than others - in specific missions. For instance, in Abaddon's Gate, Cautery Signet and Martyr work well, whereas Extinguish will also *suffice*, but is not as good.

I feel there is a balance when it comes to sorting out a team's build. It is ok to request certain skills, and point out why they are important / beneficial, but it should never be demanded. Neither should anyone have the right to completely change anyone else's build...as in re-write the build from scratch, such as insisting an Ele plays Earth Magic when they've only ever known Fire Magic.

I agree 100%, Suggesting certain Tweaks to a persons build to help them adapt better to the mission /quest you are attempting is beneficial. They Dont have to change, its a suggestion to increase the chance of suceeding. Forcing people to play something they have no idea how to play makes the player play worse than just getting them to change 1 or 2 skills and let them play with the comfortable build they know and probally are best at playing. Eg. suggesting the party mesmer takes shatter enchantment while attempting missions with Dolyaks with Mark of Protection is generally a good idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Unfortunately some people in this game think they know everything. Those are often the same people who have Mending on their bar.

Unfortually Very Often true

unienaule · Aug 23, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

If you must know, it's because so many people are incredibly terrible at Guild Wars. However, this thread is pro flamebait, and as such is closed.